Front PageA REFLECTION
Submitted by BLG2319 on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 09:49. miscellany
It seems to me that human beings are what they are. We try to be better, but in reality we will always be who we are whether we like it or not.
I came to that conclusion fairly early in life. I was treated poorly as a child by a stepfather that thought a son should be more "boyish" shall we say. I preferred soft music and appreciated intellectual stimulation. He liked fishing and working on cars. I liked talking about real things and real life. He liked talking about, nothing.
I used to hate him. I have grown to appreciate him for who he is, but it was not until I was willing to accept myself that I was able to do the same for him.
I am convinced my Stepfather hates himself. He was taught this by well intentioned Christians. It has done irreperable damage to him and those around him. I find it difficult to accept that a God of love would spread a theology of self-loathing on us that has caused immeasurable misery on millions of people throughout history. I don't see this theology in Jesus at all.
I have never felt inheritantly sinful. Maybe that is why I have always disliked the Bible. It seemed like a rule book that was created to make humans hate themselves. Why did the God of the universe, who by the way created us this way, hate us so much? Was the Jewish view of humanity a reflection of how God sees us or a reflection of how humans see themselves?
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I wouldn't say that God hates
Submitted by BLG2319 on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 12:38.
I wouldn't say that God hates us either. You wouldn't know it by the rhetoric used by many fundamentalists though. "Believe what I believe or hell awaits"! That's what I hear. That's what my Stepfather heard. It did not bring him Joy or peace. We have Christians for the last two-thousand years promising salvation when they cannot even agree what basis that salvation is granted.
Faith, works, election, all theories aspoused by scripture. Which one is correct? We can't answer, because no one knows for sure. What is the proper response to this dillemna? Create you own formula, trust God to take care of it, or dismiss all of it as non-sense?
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Faith works or election
Submitted by bill on Mon, 12/20/2004 - 20:13.
My unscholarly answer is yes. Election, I believe, is the plan to save us or to allow a way out of the downward spiral that Humankind is in. Works is what we do out of gratitude or because we want to. Faith is the belief that I am (will be) saved, and that life can be, or will be, better than it is now. Without faith we would give up immediately.
Works is a James doctrine. James was a high level leader (the Pope of Jerusalem?) and would be expected to espouse such a doctrine. Paul was a zealot but a radical anti-establishment zealot who disagreed with James and his entrenched Good-old-boy colleagues.
I think that Reido's response posted: Dec. 19 2004,3:37 on Freedom's Ring said that salvation depends upon what the one looking forward to it, is suffering. This doesn't have to contradict scripture. Jesus and others surely put their teaching into words that would be understood by the hearers. We will understand scripture much better when we get over the limiting literalness of modernism.
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What Is Salvation?
Submitted by reido on Tue, 12/21/2004 - 17:30.
This is my first attempt at a post here so I dont know where or how it is going to land, I only hope that somehow it makes it to it's intended end. If I had to rely on my skills at shooting this arrow it would be hopeless because the likelihood that I will mess things up is near 100%. But I have hope that the venture will fall on friendly ears and they will make the necessary adjustments out of a wish to communicate (because, let's face it -- wouldnt it be boring if someone were sitting at the console all alone with nothing to respond to.
That was kind of obtuse, but maybe it illustrates something. To be engaged in life, now that's existence. Personally, I prefer taking the risk that I might stumble and fall by communicating with all that surrounds me -- even the risk of hellfire if I sit like a Buddhist beside the sea and listen to its rhythm like it is a living being. Or the risk that if I really listen to an atheist, I might one day agree. Does light lose anything by sharing? Or does it often get hidden under a basket? Dare I think about a church without walls?
These are some of the things Jesus has brought into my life. Granted they are about a universe removed from what folks often consider when they talk about salvation...but that is how I breathe and how God speaks in my life. So, one might say this kind of existence that breathes in all that life has to offer -- that is my salvation. Why? Because in former days I was in a prison in my mind, afraid of what others would think or say if I dared to speak what was really on my heart.
reido
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Is the Bible a rule book?
Submitted by Larry on Tue, 12/28/2004 - 14:04.
Many of us have been taught that the Bible is like a rule book, or a constitution or an encyclopedia. But we probably weren't taught that such a point of view is only one point of view - colored by our own modernity.
BLG2319 is right, Jesus's ministry did not lead to self-loathing. His ministry lead to a change in lifestyle that focused on a relationship with God. To paraphrase Leonard Sweet, God did not send a proposition to save us, He sent a person.
larry
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A RULE BOOK
Submitted by reido on Mon, 01/03/2005 - 12:55.
lARRY
Enjoyed what you said.
reido
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A reflection
I don't think the God of the universe hates us and created humanity to make us hate ourselves. God gave us the freedom to think for ourselves and choose our response to our environment. That shows His love for us; that he is willing to let us choose to love Him, or hate Him, or ignore Him. Unfortunately, there have been a lot of distortions made from the Bible throughout history, again coming from humanity's freedom of thinking. Maybe my response is simplistic, but I believe there are small miracles that occur around us that help us get through each day, and remind us of God's presence. There's a great book I read called "Man's Search for Meaning" by Viktor Frankl, that addresses ultimate freedom in the most horrible circumstance. He was a Holocaust prisoner and survivor, and psychiatrist. It's a fascinating book.