Front PageI've Changed. Moved On. It's done, and There's No Going Back
Submitted by bill on Sat, 04/05/2008 - 22:11. debate discernment faith Faith, Meaning & Purpose religion spirituality truth
I've moved on. Changed. It came on slowly, almost imperceptibly, but my eventual recognition was rather swift, once I understood what was happening. Only a matter of days, it was. Now I can hardly see the path I trod to get to here from there. But I do remember that it as very long, bewildering and painful. And still there is much more of the road to travel.
My aim is not to criticize others for where they stand, nor for what they can't see from their present point of vantage. But I am very much interested in striking up a conversation with those who've moved over the ridge and see something more. It is not for me to convince the former, but I will not allow them to interrupt my discussion with the latter. I'm no longer interested in arguing over Truth, but in seeking it where it can be found. And that's why organized religion, institutionalized science, and sectarian politics no longer interest me. They are each merely efforts to enclose the Commons of Understanding and to lay claim to it for themselves.
There is more to say that will affect this website (since I'm the one who maintains it). Some of my past writing, I no longer identify with. Others I'd like to update to include what I've learned since then. This is the power of the Web. But we'll talk about that later. I hope that some of you can relate to what I've experienced, and will tell us about similar experiences.
Some call this experience "conversion." What do you think?
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Stage Five and Phi, the Goldern Ratio
Submitted by bill on Mon, 04/07/2008 - 11:36.
Reido,
You intrigue me with this: “Being able to absorb and grow from all points of view has potential for exponential growth.”
Do you know of the relationship between number Five and Phi, the Golden Ratio? Are you familiar with Five as Regeneration?
I'm not sure whether Fowler recognized the ancient significance of the numbers he was assigning, or whether he merely used Piaget's and Erikson's levels of mental and moral maturity. M. Scott Peck, in contrast, uses only four levels to his own range of spiritual growth. (A subject that I started writing something about a couple of days ago). But Peck ends the chapter with a quote from a colleague who says that Peck's four levels are just the beginning. Whether planned or not, Fowler's Stage numbers align somewhat with the attributes assigned to them by ancient geo-phylosophers.
bill
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Only Vaguely
Submitted by reido on Mon, 04/07/2008 - 17:04.
Bill
I know very little about this symbol. I recall some stuff from architectural study that was an arc approaching a circle but supposedly would never become one because it spiralled. There was something about perspectives in art and architecture that utilized this curve.
Seems like it is a very ancient symbol. I'll have to look it up now that you mentioned it.
reido
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Moving on
Submitted by Larry on Sun, 04/13/2008 - 18:06.
Bill,
Your comment reminded me of what Tolkien said through Frodo: "How do you pick up the threads of an old life? How do you go on, when in your heart you begin to understand there is no going back? There are some things time cannot mend. Some hurts that go too deep that have taken hold."
It's bittersweet. You appreciate those who helped you get to where you are, but there is no going back. The journey must go forward.
Coming to that point is, in my opinion, a sign of healthy growth. The journey continues on the other side of the ridge and yes, it can be called a conversion, or a new birth.
Happy Birthday!
Larry
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Implementation
Submitted by bill on Mon, 04/14/2008 - 06:44.
Larry,
Good to hear from you. Thanks for the Happy Birthday wishes. I'm too old to relish tracking the other kind of birthday :).
While I still don't really buy into the idea of linear, reductionist stages of spiritual growth (and neither does Fowler, exactly), sometimes life feels as if one door closes as a new one opens. Even when there are no outside changes.
Your quote from Tolkien is appropriate. I've navigated the arduous path of demythologizing, and gained a new appreciation for paradox and myth along the way. Myth is a very powerful part of our modern lives—even though we think ourselves so grown up that we are above such childish things. The continuing success of the classic hero stories reconfigured by Tolkien, Lewis and Lucas is proof enough. But this begs the eternal question.
How do we move people beyond devotion to the teachings of religion toward the meaning of the teachings?
bill
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Moving People
Submitted by Larry on Mon, 04/21/2008 - 18:25.
I am not sure we (you or me) can move people. I think they have to decide they want to move - then maybe we can assist a little, help with direction, etc. That is the eternal question isn't it...God does not compel any of us to move...
My own movement has often not been linear, occasionally it is, but usually it is anything but linear - more like one of those kids in a Family Circus cartoon. Fortunately those classic hero stories almost all have a redemptive, get back on the path after you fall off, theme. And I need that!
Larry
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Change
Submitted by bill on Tue, 04/22/2008 - 08:14.
Larry,
You're absolutely right that we can't move anybody to a different way of seeing. Nor should we try. I shouldn't have even suggested it, because that would run contrary to my original point. So it's obvious that I don't even understand myself.
In fact, if we look at past change artists, we find them moving people ever so slowly by example and—well myth. Change is not in the catalyst, only by it begun.
Myth speaks to the Soul. We modern rationals are very vulnerable to manipulation because our spirituality is so atrophied from lack of use. We're more likely to blindly purchase brand name products and more expensive stuff than our budgets allow, through mythical inspiration, than we are to better see the world lying beyond our five natural senses. Even our religion is rational-literal rather than spiritual. We cherish only the “real,” and let reality elude us.
What I'm beginning to learn, nowadays, is that Life is in the search for the Grail—not in the Grail itself. Likewise, Salvation begins in lostness, Grace springs from sorrow, and Wisdom comes through failure.
Success is counted sweetest
By those who ne're succeed.
To comprehend a nectar
Requires sorest need.
Not one of all the purple host
Who took the flag today
Can tell the definition,
So clear, of victory.
As he, defeated, dying,
On whose forbidden ear
The distant strains of triumph
Break, agonized and clear.
(Emily Dickinson, Selected Poems)
Only loss can know the true poignancy of gain never realized. Nobody can be moved. It's only when they realized that they are not where thought they were, that they can realize their loss. Only the lost can find salvation.
bill
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Fowler's Stages
Bill
This reminds me of the discussions that centered around the stages of development. Maturity is not coming all at once -- we would quickly be disappointed if it did. Being able to absorb and grow from all points of view has potential for exponential growth.
At this stage, I do not know that I am able any longer to explain all the nuances of how I got here to someone like a fundamentalist who has an entirely different perspective. Do not even know if that is necessary to living a complete life.
I have something of an engineering illustration that reminds me a lot of this development. The company that I just quit working for had a very antiquated method of storing and transmitting cad files. In a directory, they would store lots of backup files, revisions, etc, often with the same filename but placed in subdirectories. This often was the root of confusion for someone looking for a particular drawing -- not to mention the huge amount of space it requires when you have hundreds or thousands of drawings. I learned from my current employer that .pdf files can distill stores of data and permanently record changes in compressed space, even useful for plotting much faster than raster files. It no longer makes sense to sift thru the entire system of endless duplicate files to find something. This is especially true when it comes to the active drawing being continually revised and replaced. We have a backup system that can retrieve any file by date, so no need to keep repeating the process. But to the casual onlooker, the appearance is that change has not taken place -- what you see is what you see.
Does this make any sense?
reido