Front PageThe Consequences of Learning
Submitted by reido on Sun, 05/20/2007 - 14:07. stages of faith
We have had several conversations about faith as a process -- more aptly, faith in process, as that expresses the flow (which exists) more than the object (which does not concretely exist).
A recent experience with a relatively new and inexperienced company has brought some insight into the education process. Project manager determines scope of work is to be limited in design time, and details are to be worked out in the field by an experienced and trusted construction crew. Client gets what he wants at less engineering cost. Sounds good. I have had experience with several of these kinds of "design-build" projects. What I knew, was that the design time will be spent and charged one way or another to the client. What I mean is, at some point, whether the designer or the construction crew, the specific problems will be encountered and will require working out. In some cases with people experienced in this type of project "engineering" it nets a savings. In others, the unanticipated problems can offset any possible savings by incurring more expense and time. This I knew. But an invitation to a "Texas Barbeque" (for those who don't know, its like a roast, only you are the on the spit), it became clear that the project manager did not know or expect questions and difficulties to come from the field. His inexperience left him unprepared to account to his client for the additional cost -- as apparently he had "sold" the client on net savings and no problems.
What I have learned is that this company is in early stages of learning, and their management decisions are short-sighted. How does any of this relate to Faith? There are Stages of Faith -- each with its own consequences that are part of the learning process -- and these actually become the process. That is, the Soul ebbs and flows thru change and is formed by the learning process. Those who read in a book, and the book says "and they lived happily ever after", so they just follow step-by-step to recieve the promised reward -- these folk have yet to learn and grow beyond this limited Deterministic view. Often, the more Deterministic the view, the more prescriptive the instructions toward heaven.
What is important is to value the Consequences. They shape and remake Faith continually, so that what we now have will be changed in time. Consequences can make you bitter towards what brought them, when actually we fear that the same mistake could be made again.
reido
Bookmark/Search this post with:
The Learning Curve All Have to Bear
Submitted by reido on Sun, 05/20/2007 - 20:13.
Bill
Maybe it helps to cope, but I get so tired of the BS. I think we all have a threshold of patience, and beyond that there is little reserve. Take, for instance, my experience with the church. As I made an honest effort to assess the situation and attempted to offer an encouraging mode of change, I found my own Soul being lost to repeated endless discussion of minutia. In the end, I concluded that it was BS and not worth the sacrifice of my own time and Soul to try to nurse the church thru the inevitable battles it faces. I value those battles because they are necessary in order to learn, but do not want to live in them anymore. The question that I think every Soul must ask of themselves is, am I willing, able to continue to live in this kind of struggle over and over again. In my own case, I decided that I like the Resurrection more than the Death and Burial, so I left the dead to bury the dead, so to speak.
So, don't know if valuing consequences helps to avoid bitterness -- maybe it just helps us understand how Life works.
reido
» reply
Haven't Read Atlas Shrugged
Submitted by reido on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 06:35.
Arti
Not having read her book, I don't know the character -- so can you elaborate? Also, the Nineteenth hole, I am not sure about -- thought it meant a place to get a beer and talk game after the round of golf. Beer is good for a lot of things.
reido
» reply
post-modernist dropouts
Submitted by Arti Swede on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 19:51.
Just a light-hearted way of calling you guys post-modernist dropouts, given the tone of the conversation.
Anyway, yes the 19th hole is where you hang out AFTER the round is over--it's post-golfism.
John Galt was a super-capable, brilliant guy who dropped out of society, took a menial railroad job for kicks and lived in a secret, physically shrouded society with other high-achievers who gave up the fight, because they found themselves punished for their good intentions and good work.
» reply
Left to Their Own Devices
Submitted by reido on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 20:19.
Arti
Interesting perspective. Dropping out -- wasnt that the phrase popularized by Timothy Leary back in the sixties for the draft card and bra burning generation who initiated change by simply refusing to take part? Of course, the Free Love generation occupied itself with drugs and rampant sex as they overindulged their revolutionary penchant for civil disobedience.
I guess a beer after the game is pretty mild -- probably old age setting in! Mr. Galt would be proud. But the story's not over yet.
reido
» reply
Definitely not over
Submitted by Arti Swede on Mon, 05/21/2007 - 21:52.
Yes, that was the phrase. There actually is some really interesting stuff attendant to the drug culture. As you probably know, drug-induced state of mind was touted as simply an alternate state of mind-- not right, not wrong--just alternate. It is philosophically consistent with, and maybe a contributor/precursor post-modernism. I have not really delved too deeply into the emergent movement but I gotta say that I hear echoes of Jung and the psychotropes, if I can use that term for folks like Leary who delve(d) into the psychotropic drugs to tap into otherwise untappable "insight".
By the way, I would like to see post-modernism called something in its own right. But maybe that's not the way it happens. Maybe an age is named only after the fact. For instance, what did the people of the Rennaissance call their era? Was it "Rennaissance"? Or did they call their era "Post-Dark Ages"?
» reply
Avoiding bitterness
Reido,
Define Project Manager. :)
I must admit that I lost a lot of faith in humanity through years of breaking my back to make up for the short-sightedness of others—usually the boss.
So, are you saying that valuing the consequences avoids bitterness?
bill