Front PageWhat am I missing?
Submitted by Larry on Mon, 01/24/2005 - 13:05. postmodern
When I think about the people of faith whose lives are recorded in scripture, I seem to see a level of faith that I want to have, but seem to be missing. Noah built a boat, Abram moved his family, Rahab protected the spies, Joseph did not leave Mary, Peter and others followed Jesus, and the list goes on and on. The only way their behavior makes sense to me is if they had a relationship with God that would support their behavior.
I am at a point in my life where at least part of me wants a deeper relationship with God; although that thought also scares me. I thought I'd start by restudying the Sermon on the Mount, re-reading some classics like The Practice of the Presence of God, and asking you for your suggestions. What would you recommend?
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Foolishness
Submitted by Larry on Mon, 01/24/2005 - 22:01.
Thanks, Bill.
You're right. At least for me, a recovering modernist, I need a healthy dose of mystery and liturgy. Scorn, toppled assumptions and ridicule seem to be a small price for the relationship we seek, especially while those problems are still theoretical. Your advice to begin to count the cost seems sound.
larry
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What Am I Missing?
Submitted by reido on Mon, 01/24/2005 - 17:07.
Larry
What if these people actually had failures that could easily have been as great as their successes if it had not been for their acceptance that God takes the humblest sinner who is willing to take the risk of loving Him and fellow man?
I read of liars, cheats, denial, selfish motives, lust, power mongers,idolators, doubters, among all these greats. In every case it seems that those who considered themselves to have strength found out that God's strength is found in weakness and he grants mercy and grace to the humble.
Was it really that these people had such a great relationship, or were they fellow strugglers just like you and me who knew the shepherd's voice?
reido
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Reido, Yes, the people Go
Submitted by Larry on Mon, 01/24/2005 - 22:13.
Reido,
Yes, the people God used then, and now, have failures as great as their victories, and that gives me hope. Still, why did God pick Abram and not his neighbor? Perhaps it was that his heart was in harmony with God's heart.
I want to resonate with God.
larry
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Missing...
Submitted by reido on Tue, 01/25/2005 - 17:42.
Larry
Your desire is to dwell in the house of the Lord, and I sure want to encourage it. My comments may have sounded like I was quenching the Spirit -- something I really dont want.
That word resonate -- it reminds me of the cello. Seems like the more the wood mellows through time, the more resonant the tones when the bow is drawn. You sound like a cello to me.
I suspect that Abram did something that was not received well when he left his family and became a nomad. But we don't know the rest of the story. Still, there is a strong possibility that there were events that contributed to his leaving that we were not told about. Then, look at how the man was a transient. It's almost as if God wanted us to see a man on a journey.
Dont know if these thoughts lift you up or not. I hope they do.
reido
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Closeness
Submitted by Passing Through on Fri, 03/04/2005 - 22:33.
Thanks to some spam or some sort of internet strangeness, I am seeing this one for the first time, its a topic I enjoy so I will toss out my pennies worth.
Larry, when I was a young fella of 21, newly married with a good, new job and a nice enough apartment. I thought to myself one day how I had it made. I also thought to myself, and this is where I went wrong (or maybe went right) that I still needed growing up and maturing. I literally prayed for it because I felt like a kid and prayed for God to help me grow up. With in a years time, my granfather, the man who I respected and loved more than anyone died, my parents split up and my wife left. I am not telling you this to say be careful what you wish for even though it sounds like what I am leading up to. I tell it because I believe he really hears us when we are serious and like any good father gives us what we ask for. That prayer of mine has been and is still being answered. Your serious desire for closeness is heard I believe, but you won't wake up with it tomorrow. Every day it will grow through some of the most simple and some of the most bizare experiences; at least that has been my experience with answered prayers and the journey we are all on.
One comment on those you mentioned from biblical history, I will say it cause I think we all may be thinking it, and maybe its just an excuse, but don't you think belief and obedience is easier when the example and the word is standing right in front of you? On the other hand, I just finished my reading for the night and was reading John 12 through 15 and raising a fella from the dead wasn't good enough for some of them even then, so who knows?
Not to sound like a whiney baby or rebelious, but I do think, for myself, maintaining a strong faith and relationship is more difficult with only the book in my hands to go by and believe in.
Jim
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Foolishness, maybe
Larry,
My first reaction to your question is to say that you may well surprise yourself when a decision that really tests your faith presents itself. These examples you listed seem to be people of good character who, when presented with a fork in the road, relied upon God to make the right turn. But then the cynic in me says: “well if one of them had taken the wrong road, we wouldn't be reading about that one 2 or 3 thousand years hence.” But I think I understand your question to go much deeper than merely choosing the right road or following the same narrow one.
While alone, reading and pondering God, church and such late last night, I felt this overwhelming presence that left me with no thoughts but: “my God, my God, I am so unworthy.” The feeling was one of awe and of a stark contrast between myself and one much greater than I could fathom. Then came the urge to fall on my knees like some Biblical characters who's stories came rushing into mind. This presence didn't seem to be in the same room but merely in the neighborhood. That is: It wasn't there for me, I was just an observer. At least, if it tried to tell me something, I don't have the faith to believe it. I did get the message, I just don't accept it – yet.
Was this a spiritual encounter or merely a late night, sleep deprecation induced temporary psychosis? I don't know but like you I really want a closer, more spiritual relationship with God. But in order to have that, I think we have to accept some weird experiences that most of our Christian friends would rather us not talk about.
Reido's discussion of Kabbalah and Karen Armstrong's comparison between mythos and logos in ”The Battle For God”, are convincing me that we need a re-infusion of myth and symbolism to counter the objective, factual logos of Modernity. Of course, many people are realizing this. But we can't get there by merely turning off the lights and lighting some candles. We need liturgy and mythology. Are we willing to suffer the scorn of rationalists? Are we willing to abandon modern Christianity's interpretations of scripture? Are we willing to look and feel foolish?